many thoughts on this. i will just say

"everyone, even trans people should be careful to not perpetuate misogyny, patriarchy and antifeminism"

and

"transmisogyny is real and can be perpetuated by other trans people"

and

"trans men aren't the same as cis men systemically and don't have the same power so they shouldn't be lumped together"

and

"trans men aren't inherently evil because they choose to be men"

aren't contradictory statements

it's kinda hard to organize this all into a coherent thought because i understand what people are talking about, transmisogyny is unfortunately very much real, and no one is immune to propaganda, and i also don't feel like it's fair to trans men to be treated like they're potential threat until proven otherwise especially considering they themselves experience misogyny and are also trans

i am skeptical of tirfism specifically because it fails to recognize very obvious differences between trans men and cis men in terms of social standing and power they can actually occupy.

no one is immune to buying into bigotry and trans men aren't exempt from that but i just don't believe that if they transition and flawlessly pass and fit in (big IF) that they would just be cis men 2

there's more complexity to it

@mynameistillian "TIRF" and "tirfism" is a term I specifically do not like given it was coined by transmisogynst transmasc folks over at Tumblr as a response to legitimate critique by trans women, and the term is not well-known outside of the Tumblr userbase and now sadly also Fedi

@navi was it? i thought it was a self claim

@mynameistillian it is not. the only self-claims I've seen are ironic in nature

@navi okay, sorry. is there a better alternative name?

outrage towards men as an expression of female rage against patriarchy and cishetnormativity is entirely valid. i mean i feel it in my bones too because as an genderfluid enby i have had so many nasty interactions with cis guys so i get it. but in our pursuit of fighting against patriarchy we need to be careful to not harm our trans siblings.

that said people should also be careful to listen to trans women and make sure they don't harm them themselves, for the same reasons

like imho we need actual solidarity as a trans community

sorry if this is incoherent i like. slept 4 hours.

also this isn't some centrist bothsides bullshit. all i am saying is that we all are capable of harm in our own respective ways and we should watch our for it while not designating someone as ontologically evil

@navi rephrased what i wanted to say, edited

ugh im gonna get flamed for this ain't i

@mynameistillian You're fully right but I'd like to add the controversial and often flamed for opinion I have which is:
transmasc people can also be victims of transfeminization and therefore transmisogyny. Bigots very rarely have a theory of oppression that they adhere to, and these characteristics and their perception of it is fluid.

Denying transmasc people the whole of the transness experience they definitely do experience personally is gaslighting bullshit imo. That doesn't mean transmisogyny isn't real or it's the same as transphobia, but oppressions are not as clear cut as people like to pretend they are, since people rarely do research into who they're specifically oppressing.

@GLaDTheresCake could you elaborate on this i'd like to hear your take

@mynameistillian I'm definitely in agreement with you on all of these points. I'm surprised it needs to be explained to our fellow queers

imho honestly the fact that i am afraid for being flamed for saying all these things is kinda also a problem i notice. the way we communicate on the internet, there's something wrong with it. i hate that logging onto this app makes me feel like i am constantly stressed and walking on eggshells. but we also shouldn't let oppressive shit slide because it's framed politely, or tone police each other.