they should make a Soulslike where dodge-rolls have no iframes whatsoever just to piss everyone off

@kasdeya honestly, I'd be super curious how they would make the combat feel fair and fun while having no i-frames

@OctaviaConAmore @kasdeya you just will need to actually dodge the attack

@vivi @kasdeya mmhm, which means movement design with that in mind

honestly, the movement tech from PSO2 and PSO2 NG might be good templates to work off of even though there are i-frames in those overall, the movement feels fluid and somewhat free (relatively mobile?) compared to souls-likes

@kasdeya Nioh might as well be already that
it technically has a few iframes but dodges are primarily a positioning tool to get out of range
i’d totally run a build that removes all iframes in favor of more offense in it

@OctaviaConAmore I’m imagining something like:

• you can move out of the way of attacks
• or, you can block certain attacks (but there’s a stamina system as usual)
• or, you can parry certain attacks

and specifically:

• light attacks can be parried, blocked, or avoided
• medium attacks can be blocked or avoided
• heavy attacks can only be avoided (unless you’ve specced a lot into blocking, which sounds like stupid fun lol)

enemies would need to telegraph their heavy attacks a lot - especially in the early parts of the game. and it would need to be clear which areas are going to be hit so you know where to avoid. also there would need to be no tracking heavy attacks of course, and I feel like minimizing tracking attacks would be a good idea in general to reward players for good positioning

@OctaviaConAmore @vivi omg are you talking about Phantasy Star Online 2? I don’t know much about it but one of my partners loved the first game and seems to think pretty highly of the second game too

@woof oohh I know almost nothing about Nioh. I might give it a look just based on this alone lol

@kasdeya nioh 1 goes on sale for stupidly cheap all the time! (they also just released 3 which goes for stupidly expensive and has the worst optimization ever.)
it’s a huge departure from the formula, absolutely requires you to learn the way it wants you to play, and punishes attempts at playing like dark souls. but nioh 2 is by far also my favorite non-from take on the template

@kasdeya this is unironically how dark souls 2 felt coming off of dark souls 1

i only learned years later that they made the immunity window scale with some weird character stat i didn't put any points into

@woof hmm I feel like I might watch some folks play Nioh 2 and get a feel for what it’s like because it sounds interesting. and if I like what I see I might give it a try! since it sounds like Nioh 2 is the one that you like the most

@liese yes omgg I find that decision so baffling, even as someone who is Very Passionate about the overuse (IMO) of iframe-based dodging in Soulslikes. like it would have been so, so much better to just have a fixed number* of iframes like in Dark Souls 1

* it’s more nuanced than that but it’s basically a fixed number

I’ve heard that the Monster Hunter games are like this, where you avoid attacks through positioning instead of iframes

@kasdeya I didn’t catch your post before, but pretend like I did because I would have instantly pointed at the screen like leonardo dicaprio and enthusiastically said “monster hunter” out loud before replying with those words

@kasdeya yeah, no magical "I'm invincible while I somersault" nonsense

@kit hehehehe! I’m ngl I’ve been pretty tempted to try the Monster Hunter games because of that alone. although I’m pretty uncomfortable with the premise of killing animals and then wearing their skin and eating them and stuff, so I probably won’t actually try it 😅 but the gameplay looks fun and unique though and I’ve heard that there are weapons that let you move and attack at the same time, almost dancing around in the fight, which sounds pretty cool

@kasdeya ah, the insect glaive. a weapon for the silliest of the silly fellas (that’s probably the one you’re thinking of)

really though, almost every weapon in the game is like that. most attacks are movement in monster hunter. my favorite is the charge blade because it’s ten times more complicated to use than literally any other weapon, and it’s also a huge slab that swings you around more than you swing it around

the killing animals thing is an interesting issue though. I kinda get it, especially since the monsters even end up writhing around and end up limping pathetically, I feel pretty weird about it too when I think about it

@kasdeya ehhhhhh depends on your weapon and setup, but it's definitely a different level compared to the typical souls game

@kasdeya there aren't any iframes in armored core 6 and people fucking blasted it in the first weeks for that. fucking hilarious to read all these "git gud" gamers be unable to beat the second boss

@kasdeya it’s an amazing game, but be aware the game has a deep endgame of successive NG+ cycles that’s a bit incomprehensible to observe in video, so people often post videos where they manage to stunlock a boss through an entire fight and fun things like that. The actual early game isn’t like that!