I feel like there’s a certain type of personality that is drawn to Linux because they like solving software problems and Linux gives them lots of software problems to solve

but eventually they get too good at solving Linux problems and get bored, so they switch to Arch - which delivers new software problems to their computer all the time. but eventually they get too good at solving Arch problems so they switch to NixOS, which is an infinite wellspring of software problems to solve

@kasdeya ☑️ I'm in this picture and I don't like it

@kasdeya I didn't know you before so stop calling me out.

@kasdeya . . . yeah . . . our first three distros were suse, ubuntu, then attempt 1 at linux from scratch — it went badly so we went to debian then arch as a compromise, but we still haven't really ever learned our lesson from that

@kasdeya this feels like a callout, but actually i'm aware and i'm happy here i just don't know what will come after NixOS

@kasdeya what's after nix?

@kasdeya

You say that like it's a bad thing

@kasdeya there's also the BSDs!

@kasdeya As a NixOS user, I’ve gotten to the point where I started wondering if I really need to figure out how to override wrapKdePackages for five different programs that broke with the latest stable release to add wrapGApps so that they don’t instantly crash when I open the file dialog, or if I just want Debian or whatever so it works*.

*: On phone in bed, can’t remember the names.

@kasdeya @ariethefloof BSD maybe? GNU Hurd?

@kasdeya Looking at this article and thinking about it rrreeall hard…
https://imranmustafa.net/nix-on-debian/

@kasdeya I always felt that there's (neo)vim and emacs on one end of the learning curve scale (which is already high to begin with) and then there's NixOS, which is on a different end of the learning curve complexity scale coupled with an infinite number of (experimental) rabbit holes to get into

@kasdeya I am so tired of solving problems.

@kasdeya the more exotic the awesomer

@kasdeya I’m at the point of “too good at solving Arch problems” but i don’t really see myself switching away from it anytime soon, it’s not in consideration for me bcuz of some hardware specific nonsense that causes problems with other distros i’d want to use

@kasdeya 😂🤣😂

@kasdeya i think this is one of those graphs that has an inversion asymptote where you are problem solving so deeply that your preferred environment becomes Windows Subsystem for Linux

@kasdeya This is probably true for some. And at the other end along one axis in n-dimensional space, there are those who end up with something like Debian or RHEL or one of the *BSDs because they just can't be bothered with solving problems (both new and old ones) in ever new ways the way Microsoft keeps throwing at people with Windows.

@kasdeya I took this path and I am horrible at solving software problems

@kasdeya And here am I, using NixOS, because I don't like solving computer problems. If your set up is sufficiently vanilla, it really does Just Work, in a way no other Linux distro has for me.

I tried Arch and even Gentoo and they both seemed like endless fiddling to me. Before NixOS, the best I'd found for me was Debian with a very very boring GNOME setup.

@kasdeya Oh, how true is that. And I was in that picture as well for a decade before I switched to OpenBSD.

Good thing is that people keep solving problems and thus stay informed and curious. Sometimes, however, I would wish that they invent less "new" solutions for things that have been solved and working for 20 years...

@kasdeya then they end up a Linux kernel developer, like me

@Triplefox @kasdeya no. no, that crosses a fucking line!

@kasdeya there's steps after nixos don't worry

@raito @kasdeya is it networking?

@arichtman @kasdeya nah, i mean on a distro level

@kasdeya what about us Solaris girls?

@kasdeya there are tens of us. tens!

@kasdeya @Nickiquote This almost sounds like encouraging ordinary Windows users to switch to Linux is a bad idea because it is filled with problems that need solving.

Are you sure you want to break ranks from the party line and risk being burned at the kernel stake?

@kasdeya so we're always entertained? 😁

@kasdeya infinite wellspring of problems is a great description of nixos

i wish it clearly stated that that is how it is, so i would've known to avoid it, but nooo, nixos tries to sell itself as solving problems 🙃​

@kasdeya The old progression used to be Ubuntu -> Debian -> Gentoo -> Slackware, but yeah this is a consistent pattern. Me, I kinda went the other way.

@kasdeya As a non-developer, my reasons for preferring Linux (and open source generally) come down to freedom: from big companies pushing your data to their cloud, from monthly software subscriptions, from all manner of telemetry, etc.

I'm geeky enough to enjoy the occasional challenges but not so geeky that I want to engage in constant troubleshooting. So I mostly stick to Linux Mint for stability and the wide availability of support.

@raito @arichtman @kasdeya i mean, you may also just stick to nixos but start doing musl things, infuse.nix, attempt implementing tinyCC in pure Lix, or any other dumb experiment like that... You don't have to leave nix to go crazy.

@kasdeya everyone needs a hobby you know

@kasdeya i used to use arch but got tired of having to solve problems so now i use fedora

@kasdeya Accurate description of the progression, though I'd describe it more as an incredible grudge against my devices not telling me what they are doing. :D

@kasdeya Actually, you've got it wrong.

Linux users don't like being helpless.

Which is generally the "Windows experience". It usually works so so, until it doesn't, and then you pray and do voodoo incantations, hoping it will get better.

Linux issues can mostly be solved in a systematic, deterministic approach.

@raito @arichtman @kasdeya

TempleOS?? 🤔😂🤣

@kasdeya I hate how real this is

I call it a brain bug that doesn't let me be happy with things that work ootb

When my ecosystem works 100% and I have the mental space to do stuff, I keep fiddling with little moving parts in there

Then I get frustrated that things don't work and go on sidequests to fix or sandbox things

@kasdeya

People who likes solving problems gets drawn to Linux not because there are more problems, but because they can solve them.

@kasdeya If you want problems to solve, then Linux distros are a great place to be. If you just want problems, but can't bother to solve them, knock yourself out with any other OS ;-)

@grimmauld @arichtman @kasdeya but that's still in the realm of NixOS which is back to the infinite wellspring of software problems to solve, all of these things are fairly deterministic and easy :P

@raito @arichtman @kasdeya Yeah, those steps are working on NixOS and Lix 💀 The unholy realm.

@kasdeya
as a Linux prof with long time contracted enterprise Linux for updating more than 100s of system unit I would loose my job if I wasted my time with experimental software. For problems I get support for troubleshooting from the Linux distributor.
However many new features are only half baken and need my solutions with help from them.

@kasdeya I kinda laughed really hard with it djdbjdndkd

@kasdeya then they discover BSD.

@ariethefloof @kasdeya gentoo?

@kasdeya I know this is a shitpost but I'm actually tired of hearing about how Arch has constant issues and always new issues cause I've been using it for like 6 years and after you have a working installed system, nothing ever breaks unless you break it yourself out of boredom

@kasdeya this can also apply to android imo lmao

@kasdeya I went Ubuntu Arch Nix (With some pitstops) and I enjoy solving software problems.

But honestly the reality is that the original move was caused by Windows.

When it breaks, you can't fix it. That should make ANYBODY leery of using it. Imagine driving a car that you couldn't maintain even if you wanted to? (To be clear; You the home user CAN maintain your electric car too!)

@kasdeya I’ve never understood this, lol
I used to use debian for years
now I use artix (arch without systemd, used standard arch before) for years
I have just as few problems on artix as I did on debian
everything Just Works (even without systemd)
like literally the only thing I remember breaking was pipewire changing config format like a few years ago or something, and I had modified the config slightly (had to manually enable wireplumber) and I just had to move the conf.pacnew into conf, and that was it, lol
the only fiddling I do is nerd-ass stuff like setting up wireguard, or configuring keybinds for stuff, lol

I have a strong feeling that “stuff’s broke” is inherently a self-inflicted problem, lol, you are the problem, yourself, trying to solve the issues you cause, yourself that’s why they follow you wherever platform you switch to ;P

@kasdeya Fortunately I'm not allowed to use NixOS, because I'm cis.

@latelesley @arichtman @kasdeya windows 3.11 better

@kasdeya @fffabiooo
I believe something similar can be said about Docker and Kubernetes. 😄

@kasdeya what if i skipped straight to nixos

@kasdeya you forgot gentoo :3

@kasdeya why do i then still think I'm too bad at doing computers to be paid for doing computers?

@kasdeya For all nerds, which have solved the Arch and NixOS challenges, I can suggest SadServers.

https://sadservers.com/

@kasdeya The irony of NixOS is that its declarative config is touted as a way of making system management easier, when in reality (at least for me) it just introduces new problems and is so different from other Linux distros that a lot of what you learn from solving Linux problems is completely useless for NixOS.

My experience with NixOS after more than a decade of using Linux was actually pretty similar to your experience with Arch (it was Arch that you tried, right? I can't recall.). Confusing, frustrating, and it made me feel stupid when I couldn't figure out things that longtime NixOS users claimed would be "the easy part."

@kasdeya Reading this when I’m the person that used Arch, broke everything trying to solve a hypothetical problem, then was told Nix already solved that problem so I installed Nix. x3

@kasdeya funny thing I find Arch very stable. Or maybe I stopped fiddling with stuff after I got an Arch install the way I liked

Anyways I do like solving problems 😆

@kasdeya
> which delivers new software problems to their computer all the time
Yeah, I’d say that’s a pretty good summary of my experience with rolling release distros so far

@kasdeya I'm a masochist by skipping the arch stage 😁

@emberquill oof that sucks omg - and yeah that’s a very familiar experience to me. that’s how I feel about a lot of technologies that techy folks gets really excited about lol. but yes it’s Arch! unfortunately my laptop is still running Arch, but eventually I want to switch to Mint or Fedora which will hopefully be better

the replies to this post are so funny because it’s 75% “this is so fucking true lol - I feel called out” and 25% “umm actually Windows is the OS that really causes problems. [insert notoriously difficult distro] is literally perfect and so so easy to use and never breaks or has any problems whatsoever and if it ever did have any problems it’d be because you forgot to rekernel the sedconf.d into profligate mode which honestly anyone should be able to do in their sleep”

@kasdeya Primarily I like having problems I can solve, apart from just doing a reinstall.

@ariethefloof @kasdeya

#postmarketos?

@arichtman @raito @kasdeya oh gods not networking anything but networking (well, or working with chocolate )

@kasdeya evidently, I can't see any of the 25% replies

@kasdeya No, the thing is, I filled my entire head, neck, and most of my upper body with Linux knowledge over a number of years so now I can use Arch without problems. I didn't want to turn out this way, but I feel compelled to do so so it doesn't feel like a waste. But I often wonder what else a head (and torso) could be filled with.

@kasdeya well, I did take a detour through Gentoo instead of Arch, though...

@kasdeya NO PLEASE STOP WE HAD THE DISCUSSION TODAY “should we move from uv to just… nix flakes…. we know its gonna happen eventually….”

…..because ROCm is SO finicky with python packages that uv may not be enough ;-;

(we use arch btw <///3 lmao)

@kasdeya Is Nix the new gentoo?

@kasdeya you're not wrong. :) That being said, I find it amusing that I've spent more time fixing Ubuntu problems at work than Arch problems at home.

@kasdeya I was a teenager long time ago too, except swap Arch and Nix for Slackware, Gentoo and LFS. Now I’m using very vanilla LinuxMint