@kasdeya Okay, so I've spent waaaay more time than I would care to admit looking into various damage systems, half of my coding projects have been me doing something to try and figure out damage systems, and more than one excel sheet as well XD I have a degree in mathematics. And if the sources you were checking against were the damage calc page on the dark souls wiki, and the PSA reddit post, no wonder you were confused.

I looked at the dark souls wiki damage calculation page, and that is not "simple". It looks like someone was playing around and chopping up functions to get the curve they want, that isn't simple lol. Last night I was too tired to plug in the functions, so then I went to the reddit post. I read it while tired last night, and was like, this is all wrong. Now that I'm actually kinda awake and my mind is fueled, I have to say that it still seems to be very misleading.

The first example given, is a "simplified example", which is "not entirely representative of an actual scenario as defense values do not reduce a static amount". So the example given by the poster for why you care about weapons like in your example is mathematically wrong, and wouldn't have helped you when you were trying to figure out how it worked.

And then the next section makes a big deal about "reductions of AR from enemy defense ratings" following a logarithmic curve, which is not the way I would think about things. Like looking at the reddit table, I instantly notice damage for additional AR (although these calcs are not correct either, although in the poster's defense they didn't have access to the formulas at the time. And it is pretty much the same with the actual formulas, just the increase in damage levels off at 90 damage per 100 attack at 2400 attack.).So if you think about it that way, damage scales better for every point of attack past defense, up to a very large amount.

But it never scales high enough to make up for that beginning period, where is scales terribly.

So you do lose a part of your damage up to a certain breakpoint, and since each hit is calculated separately, you do lose damage if you are close to their defense. And that lost damage never really comes back. But it is not for flat damage reasons like is implied by the reddit post.

So I am not positive , and I haven't experimented at all, but does this sound right to you? Or make sense? I could be wrong (I do not think I am) and do not know if I am any good at explaining. And sorry if you don't want to think about the Dark Souls damage calculation formulas again, I don't think I want to either haha, but I was mad at the reddit post and lack of explanation or graph on the wiki.

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@kasdeya Okay, sorry, I got nerd sniped by that one.

unfortunately there’s no way to respec or reset anything in Dark Souls 1 - you’re stuck with your choices for the entire game
That is the actual worst.

I’m extremely uncomfortable making permanent decisions based on vibes lol
And this is also part of why haha. I'm surprisingly okay with vibing for a person who has been known to graph damage calculations (I normally don't). But yeah, if the decisions are permanent, it feels very different. I think I tend to just stop playing tbh, experimenting with builds and trying things out is part of the fun. I don't want to have to start a new play-through, then I never end up finishing a game and get bored.

also omg I’ve never heard of Unicorn Overlord - it kinda looks like Advance Wars mixed with an RTS?

I love it! And I can see why you would think that, but the actual battles are a 1000% better than advance wars. It is kinda like the FFXII Gambit system, so you set up your formations of units, they get some skills from their class, some from their items, and then you kinda program them. And then when you go into battle, they autobattle. I think it even lets you restart the battle with different programming? Or something, maybe I just save scummed. I want to go back and finish that now, I can spend hours playing with different combinations of units and testing them out against each other.
And the RTS portion is pausable, it is mostly just how units move, so you pause, send them off, and then pause whenever you want to change. So you might not hate it. The story has been pretty bland, I think it had some decent character development but the overall plot was silly, and there were some things you might not like.

also I definitely don’t mind hearing Esport Godfather infodumps!

Okay cool, well I will write it out next time! I'm infodumped out today haha.

it sounds like the mechanical complexity of {the game within the game} gets gradually increased during updates in between seasons? that seems like a smart way to ramp up the complexity

But yes, and also outside the game! So like, to start off you have your five players, and they each know a few heroes. And then you play a few games, and then you start unlocking like the ability to train them, or the ability to do bans. But things are broken up by the actual games too, so you get a chance to see how they work, or to play something you are used to before you have to learn a new thing. So like eventually, over the course of multiple seasons, it adds a bunch of little things inside and outside the game. You can do contracts, recruitment, transfers, manage bench players (I have only done contracts of this lol, I kept with my original team! But I've started recruitment in the new one.), manage facilities and ticket prices, manage morale, manage a budget (never really a problem), and then in game you unlock more champions, more bans, you unlock items (initially just 1, then later 3). Which can be kinda overwhelming if they were all at the same time, but it works since it is spaced out. And you can sorta keep them as is and then revisit when something new happens, which isn't too often,, so it works well in upkeep too. (I guess that was an infodump too)

@Shivaekul

[Unicorn Overloard] is kinda like the FFXII Gambit system, so you set up your formations of units, they get some skills from their class, some from their items, and then you kinda program them. And then when you go into battle, they autobattle. I think it even lets you restart the battle with different programming?

ooh - that actually does sound kinda cool! I can imagine that restarting to find the perfect tactics for each fight could get pretty fun honestly - almost turning it into a puzzle game or something. I don’t know if I’ve ever played or even heard of a game like that, where you tell your units roughly what to do and then they do it automatically

it’s probably not the kind of game that I would enjoy (mostly since it sounds like it has more focus on story than what I like in games, and also because it probably has elements of strategy and not just tactics), but it’s cool to hear about something new like that

So like, to start off you have your five players, and they each know a few heroes. And then you play a few games, and then you start unlocking like the ability to train them, or the ability to do bans. But things are broken up by the actual games too, so you get a chance to see how they work, or to play something you are used to before you have to learn a new thing. So like eventually, over the course of multiple seasons, it adds a bunch of little things inside and outside the game. You can do contracts, recruitment, transfers, manage bench players (I have only done contracts of this lol, I kept with my original team! But I’ve started recruitment in the new one.), manage facilities and ticket prices, manage morale, manage a budget (never really a problem), and then in game you unlock more champions, more bans, you unlock items (initially just 1, then later 3). Which can be kinda overwhelming if they were all at the same time, but it works since it is spaced out. And you can sorta keep them as is and then revisit when something new happens, which isn’t too often,, so it works well in upkeep too.

interesting! yeah that does sound like a lot of complexity, but it sounds like they did a good job of pacing when that complexity is unlocked, and they also made some of that complexity unnecessary for doing well at the game (since, for example, you never had to recruit new players) which sounds like a fantastic approach tbh. I love when games are always giving me new mechanics to play with, but never giving me too much at once

@kasdeya >ooh - that actually does sound kinda cool! I can imagine that restarting to find the perfect tactics for each fight could get pretty fun honestly - almost turning it into a puzzle game or something. I don’t know if I’ve ever played or even heard of a game like that, where you tell your units roughly what to do and then they do it automatically

Yeah, it was really nice to have the option to customize how your squad reacted before each battle too, and then to further customize. So you could turn what would have been losses into wins, it was really well designed. Sometimes it could be frustrating still if you were not able to come up with a solution in which all of your units stayed uninjured (I'm not sure if it was a setting or the default, but no perma-death, just still don't like losing units haha)

it was a surprisingly clean system. so basically, you have from between 1 and 4 action points, and 1 and 4 reaction points. And then you have actions and reactions skills, which you can get from your classes, but also your equipment. And you can also get more points from equipment. So the universe is finite, but there are so many options. And then it progresses through turn orders based on speed, with each unit choosing their ability and target based on their programming. (So you can even do like, use thing that gives you bonus on kill if there is a target with hp below 25%, otherwise use this other skill that does more damage, on the target with the lowest health (#, not %, but you can choose).) And then next time it circles around if you still have action points left, you act again. And then you can set triggers on reactions too. But because each unit has a limited number of units, and there are a limited number of copies of equipment and class unlocks, it isn't super unmanageable. Like it does a decent job building the complexity, and then kinda sets you free a bit more near the end. I haven't finished, but I think the pacing at the beginning was surprisingly good for the complexity of the game. They basically give you a story/named unit for each class, and then you can recruit more if you want to. And then you have to unlock more formation slots, and larger formations, so the complexity is gated and the progression is pretty good.

So I think it is a very cool system, and I like the concept as well, like doesn't need to have the exact same system, but I like the balance between focusing on tactics and not having to micromanage too much.

I actually had the desire to do a dungeon core game and felt like it would do very good with a similar system, like you could set up each room to act as a formation and kinda program how your monsters react, and then it would be a good system to manage the adventurers as well. I like the idea of programming your team for few different types of game, just really fun coming up with different combos.

it’s probably not the kind of game that I would enjoy (mostly since it sounds like it has more focus on story than what I like in games, and also because it probably has elements of strategy and not just tactics), but it’s cool to hear about something new like that

I think you said you only play on PC right?

So wouldn't really help you, but honestly the story kinda took a back seat? Like it was there, but kinda bland, it didn't wow me, but there were some good character moments. So did a decent job establishing characters without being overwhelming. I don't remember all the storylines, but I definitely remember kinda rolling my eyes at some of the stuff, and some of it was a little hamfisted. So I wouldn't recommend the story, but there were some good moments too, and most of the sequences were not too long and there were some decent in battle (RTS) storytelling too. Don't know how to categorize the strategy elements, but was more tacticsy for me.

And it is okay if you don't play it, or even like it. I just think the system is very cool and wanted to share it. Like, there are 6x2 formation slots, initially you can only place like 2-3 units in formation, but I think you can eventually fill them. And then there is melee attacks that can only hit the closest row, and then ranged that can hit any. And then slowly you unlock stuff like pierce attacks or row attacks (for some units). And so those plus the targeting rules give you a lot of ways to set up your units, but also keep things manageable. I just think it is a really cool system haha, and I think you might think so too. So hope you find it interesting to think about and many inspiring for one of your own projects :)

interesting! yeah that does sound like a lot of complexity, but it sounds like they did a good job of pacing when that complexity is unlocked, and they also made some of that complexity unnecessary for doing well at the game (since, for example, you never had to recruit new players) which sounds like a fantastic approach tbh. I love when games are always giving me new mechanics to play with, but never giving me too much at once

Yeah, exactly! Like lots of things to play with, but not so much that it is overwhelming! And also like, giving you a chance to play with some of your new tools too. I like games with tighter progression schedules, where you can make choices and then see how they go much more immediately. That is also part of why I like the rougelite upgrade model of an upgrade after every battle and then a chance to try out your upgrades, just a fun feedback cycle.

@Shivaekul

omgg I had no idea you knew so much about math! math has always been a subject that’s made me feel really stupid lol but I can appreciate some of it from a distance. is it okay if I ask you math questions sometimes? it’s so hard to find info on math things that isn’t just a bunch of jargon that I don’t know lol

also yeah I was looking at the Dark Souls wiki as well as a few reddit posts, and it’s really validating to know that they are contradictory (I thought so but it’s so hard for me to tell with math stuff lol)

So if you think about it that way, damage scales better for every point of attack past defense, up to a very large amount.

But it never scales high enough to make up for that beginning period, where is scales terribly.

So you do lose a part of your damage up to a certain breakpoint, and since each hit is calculated separately, you do lose damage if you are close to their defense. And that lost damage never really comes back. But it is not for flat damage reasons like is implied by the reddit post.

ohh - interesting okay! I think I get it. so as base_damage - defense gets higher, the percentage of damage absorbed by defense gets lower? so if you deal two different types of damage - since each of those damage types is calculated separately - that means that the proportion of damage absorbed is going to be higher, since the amount of damage in each calculation is smaller. is that how it works?

So I am not positive , and I haven’t experimented at all, but does this sound right to you? Or make sense? I could be wrong (I do not think I am) and do not know if I am any good at explaining.

I think your explanation made sense! And I really appreciate you putting in the effort to figure this out - because I could not at all lol. although I’m never sure to what degree people are expected to understand the underlying systems in an RPG. I wonder if it’s meant to be based more on vibes, like “I bet if my character gets stronger then I’ll do more damage, so I’ll spec into strength” kind of stuff

@kasdeya >omgg I had no idea you knew so much about math! math has always been a subject that’s made me feel really stupid lol but I can appreciate some of it from a distance. is it okay if I ask you math questions sometimes? it’s so hard to find info on math things that isn’t just a bunch of jargon that I don’t know lol

Mathematics is such a large complicated field, and I don't think many math teachers do a great job teaching it. I feel like common core is actually a step in the correct direction, teaching people some of the different ways to think about numbers and how to put things together, because that helps a lot when you start getting to higher level stuff. But a lot of teachers still don't know how to teach that either, it is kinda a mess. So I'm sorry to hear maths have made you feel stupid, but I would love to help you feel like you understood things better! I love mathematics, so please don't hesitate to ask me questions!

also yeah I was looking at the Dark Souls wiki as well as a few reddit posts, and it’s really validating to know that they are contradictory (I thought so but it’s so hard for me to tell with math stuff lol)

It is really hard to tell sometimes even when you do have experience, and people do definitely use different jargon and such and it is hard to tell. But your instincts were right!

ohh - interesting okay! I think I get it. so as base_damage - defense gets higher, the percentage of damage absorbed by defense gets lower? so if you deal two different types of damage - since each of those damage types is calculated separately - that means that the proportion of damage absorbed is going to be higher, since the amount of damage in each calculation is smaller. is that how it works?

Pretty much, in terms of usage, the percentage of damage absorbed starts at 90% damage absorbed when attack is much less than defense, and then decreases down to 10% of damage being absorbed when attack is much greater than defense. The actual percentage is determined by the ratio between attack and defense, so the amount of damage absorbed is based off attack/defense, rather than attack-defense. So 20 attack to 40 defense would have the same damage absorbed percentage as 40 attack to 80 defense. (In human terms, the damage absorbed percentage will be different if attack is half of defense, compared to if attack is twice defense. So the relationship between them is based off of that ratio, rather than in terms of the difference between the two.)

So yeah, the whole dark souls damage function could totally be rewritten to be a function that takes the value attack/defense, and then returns a damage absorb %, which you apply to the attack. A lot of maths is just describing the relationship between things, and then there are a bunch of rules to change the way it is described, or to think about it from a different point of view, but it still stays the same. So I could adjust the dark souls formulas to display in terms of damage absorbed percent, as a function of attack and defense, and walk through all the algebra if you wanted, I actually started doing it and then decided it might be a bit much haha. Cause really the actual value isn't all that important, the key is what you identified, as the amount of attack you have relative to defense increases, the percentage of damage absorbed by defense gets lower. So exactly, with the two different types of damage being calculated separately, the proportion of damage absorbed is going to be higher if the defense value is the same.

(Although, conceivably if they had lower resists, you could actually be fine with two types of damage, if each type of damage had a higher ratio of damage to resist then the amount absorbed would be lower, so you could use a dual type weapon in that case. It sounds like that doesn't happen often in dark souls, but it would be possible.)

I think your explanation made sense! And I really appreciate you putting in the effort to figure this out - because I could not at all lol.

No worries, I'm glad you found it helpful, and it was fun to think about!

although I’m never sure to what degree people are expected to understand the underlying systems in an RPG. I wonder if it’s meant to be based more on vibes, like “I bet if my character gets stronger then I’ll do more damage, so I’ll spec into strength” kind of stuff

Yeah, I think honestly that is mostly what they expect people to do. Like, especially if they add a tooltip that says strength increases damage, then on a basic level people know to increase strength if they want to increase damage. You only really need to bring maths into it if you are trying to optimize, and most of the time I feel like you can get away with vibes. Like, many games you kinda just decide, do I want to be strong, or fast, or tough, and then focus on that, while picking up enough of the rest that it doesn't feel bad. And that is super vibes, but I think it often works. And then you can dig deeper if you want, but I don't think that you really need to in the average RPG. Also mostly game designers try to make it work with vibes, they try to design it to feel good even if you don't dive into it. (I mostly only do it for something competitive, or with something that has an endless scaling mode and an explicitly stat based system, if I get interested. But I play based on vibes first and only turn to calculations if I feel like optimizing, which honestly mostly isn't worth it, even in games I enjoy. They generally try to design things to be roughly balanced, and while they don't always succeed, I'm willing to give it a try first.)

@Shivaekul

it was a surprisingly clean system. so basically, you have from between 1 and 4 action points, and 1 and 4 reaction points. And then you have actions and reactions skills, which you can get from your classes, but also your equipment. And you can also get more points from equipment. So the universe is finite, but there are so many options. And then it progresses through turn orders based on speed, with each unit choosing their ability and target based on their programming. (So you can even do like, use thing that gives you bonus on kill if there is a target with hp below 25%, otherwise use this other skill that does more damage, on the target with the lowest health (#, not %, but you can choose).)

oohh okay this actually sounds really fun. something that I keep wanting to do (for actual years jkndfslsdfkjlnfgdjnskl) is to create a series of scripts that automates Pokemon battles and grinding for me, since I find the gameplay really tedious but I think I would really enjoy writing the logic for “if you’re in this situation, use this ability” and maybe even collecting data of the results of battles and analyzing it in order to make even better strategies

and anyway it sounds like Unicorn Overlord captures a little bit of what’s appealing to me about that concept

also I’m glad that you’re enjoying the game so much! and I love that they do a good job of keeping the complexity manageable at every step of progression

I actually had the desire to do a dungeon core game […]

oh, omg! I actually read a story that has beings called dungeon cores in them so I think I know what those are. they’re sentient crystals that are able to create dungeons in order to protect themselves from fantasy adventurers, right?

[…] and felt like it would do very good with a similar system, like you could set up each room to act as a formation and kinda program how your monsters react, and then it would be a good system to manage the adventurers as well. I like the idea of programming your team for few different types of game, just really fun coming up with different combos.

that sounds like a really cool concept tbh. have you made games before? I would love to see what a game like that would end up being like. it almost sounds like it would be sorta like tower-defense-y, except instead of towers you had units that could take more initiative and move around more

I think you said you only play on PC right?

oof yeah I just looked it up and Unicorn Overlord is only on console. which is probably for the best because odds are I’d just decide that I don’t like it after all lol (I hate having to live with my choices in strategy games - it’s like I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for it to turn out that I’m fucked because of a bad decision I made 3 hours ago fksjngfjkndsl)

but yeah I don’t have any consoles at all - just my PC

And it is okay if you don’t play it, or even like it. I just think the system is very cool and wanted to share it.

I’m glad that you did! I guess I’m still learning how to be okay with having a different opinion than someone else about this kind of stuff, but it’s also fun to hear about because I’ve never heard of a game like it before

Yeah, exactly! Like lots of things to play with, but not so much that it is overwhelming! And also like, giving you a chance to play with some of your new tools too. I like games with tighter progression schedules, where you can make choices and then see how they go much more immediately. That is also part of why I like the rougelite upgrade model of an upgrade after every battle and then a chance to try out your upgrades, just a fun feedback cycle.

hm that makes a lot of sense! and this made me realize that my paranoia over making lasting choices in games doesn’t extend to roguelites and roguelikes, and I think that’s because there’s permadeath so I treat every character as disposable anyway lol - so I feel safe to experiment as much as I want, and even make bad choices on purpose, because I’m not stuck with those choices forever

but I also think that it helps a lot that - like you said - I get immediate feedback over whether my choice was a good one

@Shivaekul

So I’m sorry to hear maths have made you feel stupid, but I would love to help you feel like you understood things better! I love mathematics, so please don’t hesitate to ask me questions!

aw, thank you! I’m really glad that I can

Pretty much, in terms of usage, the percentage of damage absorbed starts at 90% damage absorbed when attack is much less than defense, and then decreases down to 10% of damage being absorbed when attack is much greater than defense. The actual percentage is determined by the ratio between attack and defense, so the amount of damage absorbed is based off attack/defense, rather than attack-defense. So 20 attack to 40 defense would have the same damage absorbed percentage as 40 attack to 80 defense. (In human terms, the damage absorbed percentage will be different if attack is half of defense, compared to if attack is twice defense. So the relationship between them is based off of that ratio, rather than in terms of the difference between the two.)

ohh okay that actually makes a lot of sense now! it’s pretty easy for me to think in terms of “there’s some function f(damage/defense) that gives a percentage of damage reduction between 10% and 90%”. functions are easy for me to think about because I write a lot of code lol

Yeah, I think honestly that is mostly what they expect people to do. Like, especially if they add a tooltip that says strength increases damage, then on a basic level people know to increase strength if they want to increase damage. You only really need to bring maths into it if you are trying to optimize, and most of the time I feel like you can get away with vibes. Like, many games you kinda just decide, do I want to be strong, or fast, or tough, and then focus on that, while picking up enough of the rest that it doesn’t feel bad. And that is super vibes, but I think it often works. And then you can dig deeper if you want, but I don’t think that you really need to in the average RPG. Also mostly game designers try to make it work with vibes, they try to design it to feel good even if you don’t dive into it. (I mostly only do it for something competitive, or with something that has an endless scaling mode and an explicitly stat based system, if I get interested. But I play based on vibes first and only turn to calculations if I feel like optimizing, which honestly mostly isn’t worth it, even in games I enjoy. They generally try to design things to be roughly balanced, and while they don’t always succeed, I’m willing to give it a try first.)

hmm that’s really interesting. I guess I just get really uncomfortable with being asked to make permanent decisions based on imperfect information lol, but that explains a lot. I wonder what would happen if I tried replaying Dark Souls but I just chose where to put my points based on entirely on intuition. I wonder if I’d have trouble finishing the game or if things would go well for me. I guess if things didn’t go well for me, that might be considered a flaw with the game?

but yeah this is really good to know, so thanks for explaining it too

@kasdeya

ohh okay that actually makes a lot of sense now! it’s pretty easy for me to think in terms of “there’s some function f(damage/defense) that gives a percentage of damage reduction between 10% and 90%”. functions are easy for me to think about because I write a lot of code lol

Yeah, exactly! That is exactly it, everything else is just spaghetti code inside the function haha. So that helps, there are lots of overlaps between functions and maths!

hmm that’s really interesting. I guess I just get really uncomfortable with being asked to make permanent decisions based on imperfect information lol, but that explains a lot. I wonder what would happen if I tried replaying Dark Souls but I just chose where to put my points based on entirely on intuition. I wonder if I’d have trouble finishing the game or if things would go well for me. I guess if things didn’t go well for me, that might be considered a flaw with the game?

From what I understand of Dark Souls, I think they want you to have trouble finishing the game, and I don't think I've ever heard that it is perfectly balanced. But idk, yeah sometimes it can be fun playing as a certain style (and even being at a disadvantage sometimes because of it), and then still figuring out a way to win. It totally is a mindset, and I don't finish a ton of games, so I'm not trying to say it is the only way to play lol, but I think it could be fun to try sometime :)

but yeah this is really good to know, so thanks for explaining it too

It is fun talking about and sharing different viewpoints! I'm glad I was able to help you conceptualize this a little differently :)

@kasdeya I had a better response to this written, but I apparently left my laptop sitting unplugged and lost it :( kinda frustrating cause I think I had a pretty good response nearly ready to go, but I will do my best to rewrite. And I'm really interested in this conversation, so if I am short in my response anywhere, it is because this is the second (maybe actually third lol) time writing it, not because I am not interested!

oohh okay this actually sounds really fun. something that I keep wanting to do (for actual years jkndfslsdfkjlnfgdjnskl) is to create a series of scripts that automates Pokemon battles and grinding for me, since I find the gameplay really tedious but I think I would really enjoy writing the logic for “if you’re in this situation, use this ability” and maybe even collecting data of the results of battles and analyzing it in order to make even better strategies

That sounds cool, I totally get it cause I don't always find the actual pokemon battles to be that interesting, although I do add slightly modified rules to try and add a little bit more to it. But I love the pokemon universe, so that sounds very cool! I read some pokemon fanfics lol, and one of the things I like is that the battles are actually more engaging, pokemon can know more than 4 moves, and also there is a focus on training pokemon outside of battle on how to react to certain situations. But I really like your idea of building on top of the existing game, so that you can still play through, but also make it work more for you. Lol, that make it better mindset ;)

What ideas have you come up with? Have you ever thought of trying to make your own Pokemon game? Idk, but pokemon is one of my favourites (with full realization that it has a lot of issues, and like, I doubt I would like the gameplay on my own, and I haven't played all the games, but I do like the universe.)

I would love to hear your ideas!

and anyway it sounds like Unicorn Overlord captures a little bit of what’s appealing to me about that concept

Yeah, like it totally focuses more on the battle logic and tactics, rather than the tedium that rpgs can sometimes get trapped into. (I like tactics to describe like the smaller scale, more in the present stuff, and then strategy is more long term and with more people involved, that is kinda my distinction. And I do like elements of them both, but I think mostly tactics are more fun, and I think that is what you like more as well. But just wanted to share that terminology I use there.) And I do think the battle logic is cool, especially since you do have some game design interests!

oh, omg! I actually read a story that has beings called dungeon cores in them so I think I know what those are. they’re sentient crystals that are able to create dungeons in order to protect themselves from fantasy adventurers, right?

Exactly right! Which one did you read!? I've read many of them haha, they are a mixed bag but I am super interested in the concept. Would love hear your thoughts on the one you read!

that sounds like a really cool concept tbh. have you made games before? I would love to see what a game like that would end up being like. it almost sounds like it would be sorta like tower-defense-y, except instead of towers you had units that could take more initiative and move around more

I have not, but I have always wanted to! And yeah, definitely an element of defense, setting up your rooms for people to come into. But exactly, like the hard part to manage for that was the units being able to move and take imitative. But I did think micromanaging would be too boring, and I wanted some sort of autobattle mechanic, but I didn't want it to be just like boring party line up and fight, cause that removes the whole design element of a dungeon.

And then because I don't have much in the way of game making experience, also have to consider what I'm capable of lol. I installed unity and tried working with it a bit, rapidly decided that 3d wasn't going to work, but then 2d I couldn't come up with anything that seemed engaging. But yeah, Unicorn Overlord kinda inspired me in terms of the formation based design (even though that becomes a non-factor in the late game when you max out your unit at 6 units for a 3x2 grid), and then the idea of being able to customize your units abilities and usage a little. So that was super inspiring for me, like the basic idea is that you can set up your room to have a formation, and then program actions, and then the adventurers can do the same, but they only kinda walk in the entrance and then deploy. Still would need some edits to add environmental factors, and I don't think I would use the room to the extent that I would really like to, because I don't want to focus on movement, more on actions, but yeah, it feels like it would be a fun direction to go in!

but yeah I don’t have any consoles at all - just my PC

PC is basically my favorite, although I do like the convenience of my switch as well. I have other consoles, including some older ones, but I like barely use them. Most games are on PC these days anyways.

I’m glad that you did! I guess I’m still learning how to be okay with having a different opinion than someone else about this kind of stuff, but it’s also fun to hear about because I’ve never heard of a game like it before

It is hard, especially when you do want to play a game! There are a few ones that I can't play right now because I don't have windows (or a current gen console, other than the switch), and it is annoying! But honestly I don't finish many games, so it is fun hearing about the concepts! I also don't really buy games new lol, so it is like, everyone is currently obsessing over expedition 33, which sounds awesome tbh, but I haven't given it a try yet.

m that makes a lot of sense! and this made me realize that my paranoia over making lasting choices in games doesn’t extend to roguelites and roguelikes, and I think that’s because there’s permadeath so I treat every character as disposable anyway lol - so I feel safe to experiment as much as I want, and even make bad choices on purpose, because I’m not stuck with those choices forever

That is really fair, I think I like them for the same reasons too, like it feels so much more free to experiment! I wanted to tie this into the disco Elysium post as well, where you were a little more okay with failure there (but also bothered by areas being closed off). Like, I think with a lot of games they kinda plan for you to replay if you want to see different routes, which might help you emotionally as well when playing through to it, to make it feel less permanent as well. Because games are supposed to feel less consequential, in my mind anyways, and I want you to feel the freedom to try things out and have fun without having to feel trapped. Although... I say this as a person that basically never finishes game, in part because I sometimes restart to make different choices, but I still don't finish that either. Sooooo, grain of salt lol.

but I also think that it helps a lot that - like you said - I get immediate feedback over whether my choice was a good one

This is one of my big differentiations between tactics and strategy. Like, tactics is more immediate and you get that feedback, for strategy it plays out over time, so you don't have that feedback

@Shivaekul

I had a better response to this written, but I apparently left my laptop sitting unplugged and lost it :( kinda frustrating cause I think I had a pretty good response nearly ready to go, but I will do my best to rewrite. And I’m really interested in this conversation, so if I am short in my response anywhere, it is because this is the second (maybe actually third lol) time writing it, not because I am not interested!

aw, that sucks! but I’m glad to hear that you’re so interested, because I definitely am too. I love getting to talk to you

That sounds cool, I totally get it cause I don’t always find the actual pokemon battles to be that interesting, although I do add slightly modified rules to try and add a little bit more to it.

ooh, like Nuzlocke? have you ever heard of Archipelago? because it has support for Red, Blue, and Emerald (and probably more that isn’t mentioned on the website)

But I love the pokemon universe, so that sounds very cool! I read some pokemon fanfics lol, and one of the things I like is that the battles are actually more engaging, pokemon can know more than 4 moves, and also there is a focus on training pokemon outside of battle on how to react to certain situations.

omg interesting. can you give an example of out-of-battle training? that actually sounds like it could be pretty cool

But I really like your idea of building on top of the existing game, so that you can still play through, but also make it work more for you. Lol, that make it better mindset ;)

aww hehehe, thank you!

What ideas have you come up with?

okay so I’ve always wanted to replace random battles in the Pokemon games with stealth elements, because I hate random battles so much lol and I’d much rather sneak past Pokemon instead. so instead of it being a random punishment it feels more like it’s my fault for being seen by a trainer or a Pokemon

and that made me think of making a Pokemon game that’s just stealth. like specifically I’m imagining a game kinda like the Mystery Dungeon series where you’re controlling a Pokemon (you choose which one before you start the level) in third person and trying to sneak past enraged Pokemon in order to rescue someone trapped inside of a cave or a building or something like that. each Pokemon would start with one ability each and you’d unlock more as you kept playing with them, plus you’d be able to collect single-use gadgets in the levels

I’d also really really love a Nintendogs-type Pokemon game where you just pet them and play with them and take them on walks and stuff lol. maybe different Pokemon have different preferences for where they want to go based on their typing and their nature. like fire-types hate going to the pool but water-types and grass-types love it. maybe it could just be the Eevee line so you can eventually unlock Espeon and Umbreon and Vaporeon and etc. but you just start with a single unevolved Eevee at first

Have you ever thought of trying to make your own Pokemon game?

to be honest all of these ideas are just off of the top of my head and I haven’t really thought about it at all! I don’t think I’d want to given how litigious Nintendo’s legal department is lol - they’ve shut down so many cool Pokemon projects, like the Pokemon MMO. but I’ve definitely thought a decent amount about what I would do to make a fun Pokemon game (I actually thought that Pokken was a pretty cool concept, and I loved Mystery Dungeon as well. but I can be uncomfortable with the cockfighting aspect of a lot of the Pokemon games lol)

Idk, but pokemon is one of my favourites (with full realization that it has a lot of issues, and like, I doubt I would like the gameplay on my own, and I haven’t played all the games, but I do like the universe.)

omg I completely understand that. I’m weird because I appreciate Pokemon a lot from a distance but I don’t like getting too close to it lol. the main games are not for me but some of the spinoffs look fun, but also I feel like the whole premise needs to be changed because it’s kinda inherently fucked up to capture animals and make them fight. but at the same time I love some of the Pokemon’s designs so idk I’m so ambivalent about it lol

(I like tactics to describe like the smaller scale, more in the present stuff, and then strategy is more long term and with more people involved, that is kinda my distinction. And I do like elements of them both, but I think mostly tactics are more fun, and I think that is what you like more as well. But just wanted to share that terminology I use there.)

that makes sense! I think I’ve heard that distinction made in the past in videos about Star Wars warfare lol - like how the Battle of Hoth was a tactical victory for the rebels (they successfully evacuated and everything went to plan) but a strategic loss (their base was discovered and destroyed and a lot of people died) so it makes sense to me to apply it to games as well

Exactly right! Which [story involving dungeon cores] did you read!? I’ve read many of them haha, they are a mixed bag but I am super interested in the concept. Would love hear your thoughts on the one you read!

so it’s called Magic is Programming and I kinda fell in love with it when I read it, despite it having some serious writing issues in places. in the story, dungeon cores are very alien intelligences, that don’t even have a need to socialize, but I still find them weirdly likeable

I think Magic is Programming also takes a decent bit of inspiration from cultivation fiction (if that’s the term?) based on my very limited knowledge of what that is lol. and I love how it actually justifies in-universe why the magic system involves RPG mechanics, in a way that doesn’t feel contrived to me at all. I didn’t know that that was possible

and I also just kinda love the magic system in general. it seems incredibly well-thought-out and the story overall is one of my favorite types of power fantasies: where the protagonist has a huge advantage over others because of how they think and what they know

unfortunately the protagonist of the story doesn’t seem interested in helping others so far? which, there are a lot of threats coming straight for him and his partner, so I understand why that isn’t his priority right now, but I also find it off-putting that his wellbeing seems to be all he cares about, or at least he hasn’t considered how he wants to help others in any way yet, despite this being a world that is deeply corrupt at its core

and also the way that the magic system is written starts out very very vague and then gets more concrete over time as the characters learn more about how it works, and I think that’s a deliberate choice so that the story can have dramatic reveals as the characters learn something new that they can use to their advantage. but unfortunately a lot of those vague descriptions end up making no sense at all to me lol because they’re just… so vaguely-worded that I can’t even parse meaning from them. but later on I did eventually figure out what they were trying to say, but I had to keep notes and refer back to them lol

I installed unity and tried working with it a bit, rapidly decided that 3d wasn’t going to work, but then 2d I couldn’t come up with anything that seemed engaging.

oh - how far did you get in making 2D stuff in Unity? I tried following a basic Unity tutorial but I found it way too basic - like a whole chapter would drag out like 1 new concept into 7 paragraphs with pictures and everything. so I installed an FPS template and tried to tinker with it but was quickly overwhelmed and felt really stupid because C# feels incredibly foreign and strange to me in a lot of different ways. like there are a whole lot of things about how that language works that seem like outright terrible ideas, but Rowan has told me that they really aren’t as bad as they seem - it’s just that I don’t understand the greater context of what the language is trying to accomplish

and anyway the codebase for the FPS template seemed like a total mess. so I stopped messing with Unity lol, but I’ve been thinking about trying to make a Minecraft mod instead

But yeah, Unicorn Overlord kinda inspired me in terms of the formation based design (even though that becomes a non-factor in the late game when you max out your unit at 6 units for a 3x2 grid), and then the idea of being able to customize your units abilities and usage a little. So that was super inspiring for me, like the basic idea is that you can set up your room to have a formation, and then program actions, and then the adventurers can do the same, but they only kinda walk in the entrance and then deploy. Still would need some edits to add environmental factors, and I don’t think I would use the room to the extent that I would really like to, because I don’t want to focus on movement, more on actions, but yeah, it feels like it would be a fun direction to go in!

I don’t know much about that type of game at all so I can’t say if that sounds fun or not tbh but I like that you have such a specific vision in mind for how this could work! it definitely sounds really interesting to see this in action, and I’ve always liked the idea of creating a dungeon and setting up the defenses and then watching people (maybe other players or maybe NPCs) try to get through it

I wanted to tie this into the disco Elysium post as well, where you were a little more okay with failure there (but also bothered by areas being closed off). Like, I think with a lot of games they kinda plan for you to replay if you want to see different routes, which might help you emotionally as well when playing through to it, to make it feel less permanent as well. Because games are supposed to feel less consequential, in my mind anyways, and I want you to feel the freedom to try things out and have fun without having to feel trapped. Although… I say this as a person that basically never finishes game, in part because I sometimes restart to make different choices, but I still don’t finish that either. Sooooo, grain of salt lol.

hahaha - that’s very fair! but I could definitely use more of that mentality. I like the way you framed it here, where I can always replay a game to see what I missed. I think I want to internalize that if I can, because I think that might really help me be okay with making permanent choices or missing content or things like that. so I appreciate you saying this - thank you

@kasdeya

ooh, like Nuzlocke?

Yeah like portions of Nuzlocke, like I went with pokemon being injured for a period of time rather than dying, and also allowed myself to not have to catch the first pokemon, but still only one from each route. Or would play as like a type master or themed teams. Just different combinations of rules, depending on what I felt like. I tried doing one based off like rests = days, but that was too much work to keep track of. The one rule I try to keep is keeping the set switch method (even in Scarlet/Violet where I had to just say no every time, since they removed the option, very annoying). Adds a little bit more depth for switching pokemon to have a downside, so I like that.

have you ever heard of Archipelago [archipelago.gg]? because it has support for Red, Blue, and Emerald (and probably more that isn’t mentioned on the website)

I have not! That is very cool! I have considered using a randomizer before, and did kinda look into fangames, but I think this is super cool too! I like the multiplay options too, including cross game? And then does that mean like varying gym order? That seems very interesting, might have to give it a try. Have you done it, how does it work?

omg interesting. can you give an example of out-of-battle training? that actually sounds like it could be pretty cool

Yeah, so like it is very interesting, there are a lot of different stories, and some handle things very differently, but there is also a lot of crossover. So most of them do have trainers spending hours with their pokemon every day, where the pokemon practice different moves, or different techniques. Sometimes like pokemon will be paired up, one is trying a new attacking technique and the other one is dodging and trying out a non-combat move. Or sometimes there can be like mediation and type energy focusing or such.

And then there are some that have them like watching videos and doing battle prep with their team, like especially for gym battles or tournaments. So they plan for certain situation, like to dodge a certain way, or how to react with different attacks, or now I'm blanking, but there is definitely also some stories that do a lot of misdirection stuff, like illusions or using provoke, or there are plans like breaking up the field in a certain way to have stuff to hide behind and act as obstacles, or to mess up the footing against certain pokemon, or put water or mud or something into play. And there are some standard responses to things, like a reoccurring theme is using iron tail or steel wing to help ground electric attacks, or super short duration digs to dodge.

okay so I’ve always wanted to replace random battles in the Pokemon games with stealth elements, because I hate random battles so much lol and I’d much rather sneak past Pokemon instead. so instead of it being a random punishment it feels more like it’s my fault for being seen by a trainer or a Pokemon

That makes a lot of sense to me! I have enjoyed in the new (some of the switch) games they have added pokemon to the overworld, so that you can like try to run around or away from them. In Scarlet/Violet they actually experimented with trainers only fighting you if you talk to them (or in events), which kinda worked with the format, but I'm not sure I liked what they did with scarlet/violet. The story/world doesn't like... make sense, even by the standards of pokemon. And you have no real guidance, but stuff doesn't scale either, so there are "correct" routes, which don't have in game guideposts. But I liked being able to choose to battle trainers when running around exploring, but I kinda liked the "stealth" aspect of trying to dodge the eyes of some trainers as well. But I've mostly tried to challenge the routes by fighting everyone haha, rather than the sneaking route. I think having the option to sneak around seems very cool.

and that made me think of making a Pokemon game that’s just stealth. like specifically I’m imagining a game kinda like the Mystery Dungeon series where you’re controlling a Pokemon (you choose which one before you start the level) in third person and trying to sneak past enraged Pokemon in order to rescue someone trapped inside of a cave or a building or something like that. each Pokemon would start with one ability each and you’d unlock more as you kept playing with them, plus you’d be able to collect single-use gadgets in the levels

This is a very cool/fun take on pokemon. Pokemon Rescue Rangers, but I really like it! And different pokemon could have different specialties, like dig and water skills are obvious, or vinewhip, or flying, but it would be cool to have a bunch of different options and be able to use these powers for problem solving. I really like it! Could be like a whole big building or cave system or something where you unlock different sections as you unlock different abilities, would be a very fun way to engage with the world!

to be honest all of these ideas are just off of the top of my head and I haven’t really thought about it at all! I don’t think I’d want to given how litigious Nintendo’s legal department is lol - they’ve shut down so many cool Pokemon projects, like the Pokemon MMO. but I’ve definitely thought a decent amount about what I would do to make a fun Pokemon game (I actually thought that Pokken was a pretty cool concept, and I loved Mystery Dungeon as well. but I can be uncomfortable with the cockfighting aspect of a lot of the Pokemon games lol)

That is a very fair point... And I still need to actually play Mystery Dungeon, they came out when I wasn't really engaging with pokemon or games other than PC. And I still haven't had a chance to play a lot of games I want to still. But I like that a lot of the fanfics lean into the pokemon want to travel the world and get stronger aspect of it. Like I haven't watched all the anime, or much even, but I did watch a few episodes a while back, and I noticed that Ash and crew mostly asked the pokemon if they wanted to travel with them, rather than forcing them. Some of the fanfics do have a more adversarial relation (at least one fic has some pokemon who have killed trainers who are abusive), but in most of them it is a partnership, and some have very cool takes on like the power of friendship and connections, which also help. (And even in that fic, the MC was still better than that.) It is interesting how some of the different authors try to address the issue. But yeah like it mostly only works if it is like sports, where people (and pokemon) don't really get hurt for real, are going to get better, and are just competing to get stronger.

omg I completely understand that. I’m weird because I appreciate Pokemon a lot from a distance but I don’t like getting too close to it lol. the main games are not for me but some of the spinoffs look fun, but also I feel like the whole premise needs to be changed because it’s kinda inherently fucked up to capture animals and make them fight. but at the same time I love some of the Pokemon’s designs so idk I’m so ambivalent about it lol

I guess I started answering this in the above, but there are some attempts to address some of the more problematic parts. It does vary in different sources, and I don't know all of them that well, but it does try and take more of a friends and partners aspect. Generally the handwaving is kinda that the more competitive pokemon want to team up with trainers because trainer pokemon get stronger. And in many stories, many trainers don't really go to get all badges, like that is kinda the protoganist hardcore thing, but some people just do a little bit of the journey, and then sorta retire with their pokemon, maybe as a pet/friend, maybe going into business together, or maybe if the pokemon wants to fight, then letting them travel with someone else. Idk, like there are still some problematic aspects and not all the stories do a great job of handling it, but there are some attempts to make it less fucked up.

{Magic is Programming/Dungeon Cores/Webnovels}

I will respond to this in a separate post (on a later night), as there is so much I could say and I'm running up on the character limit (and my bedtime)

I tried following a basic Unity tutorial but I found it way too basic - like a whole chapter would drag out like 1 new concept into 7 paragraphs with pictures and everything. so I installed an FPS template and tried to tinker with it but was quickly overwhelmed and felt really stupid

This is very similar to my experience. The tutorials were really underwhelming and didn't feel like they explained much, but then when I tried to actually do something on my own, I got overwhelmed really quickly.

C# feels incredibly foreign and strange to me in a lot of different ways

Yeah, like different languages are built with different philosophies, and some of them make sense from one perspective, but not always yours. I've decided to become a lisp guy lol, like its the first language I've used where pretty much every decision I'm like, okay cool, that makes sense to me. Do you have a favourite language? (Doesn't help when you are forced into a language lol, like I've very much toned down the scale of what I can accomplish)

and anyway the codebase for the FPS template seemed like a total mess. so I stopped messing with Unity lol, but I’ve been thinking about trying to make a Minecraft mod instead

That could be fun! What would you want to make?

I don’t know much about that type of game at all so I can’t say if that sounds fun or not

Lol, it sounds more fun than any of my other ideas! This one at least sounds like it could be fun lol, but a lot would depend on implementation, but this at least feels like something to build off of.

I’ve always liked the idea of creating a dungeon and setting up the defenses and then watching people (maybe other players or maybe NPCs) try to get through it

Yeah, and it is fun to see what happens and then iterate!

I like the way you framed it here, where I can always replay a game to see what I missed. I think I want to internalize that if I can, because I think that might really help me be okay with making permanent choices or missing content or things like that.

It is something I'm working on internalizing myself as well! I also agonize over choices and such, and I've been working on not feeling the need to restart if I didn't get everything, or like if I lose or don't do well or something. Or like failing a skill check. But I've been trying to be okay with not being perfect, and just experiencing the game, and then I can come back if I really want to.

It sounds like you have been doing a good job of enjoying some games recently and playing through them, including on impressive difficulty, so seems like you have been doing a good job with your mentality :)

@Shivaekul

ooh, like Nuzlocke?

Yeah like portions of Nuzlocke, like I went with pokemon being injured for a period of time rather than dying, and also allowed myself to not have to catch the first pokemon, but still only one from each route.

oof yeah I forgot about the dying part of Nuzlocke. that’s… yikes. I could never do that - I’m already very uncomfortable with the premise of Pokemon lol

Or would play as like a type master or themed teams.

ooh those sound like fun ideas as well. since a lot of Pokemon tactics seems based around trying to rock-paper-scissors your opponent’s type, I bet it was pretty tricky trying to have a team that’s all one type but that still had a good amount of type coverage, and maybe dual types to help them absorb damage from certain types that would otherwise be super-effective

I tried doing one based off like rests = days, but that was too much work to keep track of.

hm so you could only rest at a Pokemon center once per IRL day? because that does sound kinda interesting

The one rule I try to keep is keeping the set switch method (even in Scarlet/Violet where I had to just say no every time, since they removed the option, very annoying). Adds a little bit more depth for switching pokemon to have a downside, so I like that.

I had never heard of this but when I google for it it sounds like this means that when the enemy trainer wants to switch to a new Pokemon, the game won’t tell you what that Pokemon is going to be? that’s interesting - so I guess in that case you have to try to guess what other Pokemon the trainer has and what they might want to switch in

I have not! [Archipelago] is very cool! I have considered using a randomizer before, and did kinda look into fangames, but I think this is super cool too! I like the multiplay options too, including cross game?

I absolutely love using Archipelago in multiplayer. Rowan has been playing Hylics 2 while I’m playing Doom and it feels really good for me to send her items that unlock more content for her in the game, or some kind of equipment that will help her, or things like that. idk I just love feeling helpful and how we’re able to help each other progress even though we’re playing totally different games

And then does that mean like varying gym order? That seems very interesting, might have to give it a try.

I think so! it looks like all of the key items, including HMs, can be randomized. so you might have to do the gyms out of order just because you don’t have the HM you need to get to another gym. it looks like it can even randomize which legendary Pokemon is where, and randomize the Pokemon in general - for trainers and tall grass. but it’s really configurable, of course

Have you done it, how does it work?

okay so unfortunately getting Archipelago to work can be moderately technical and the documentation isn’t the best, but basically how it works is…

so you know how randomizers will often have two item pools - one for items that you need to progress (like HMs) and one for bonus items (like potions, escape ropes, and repels)? and then the randomizer will mix up all of the items in each of those pools

what Archipelago does is it takes the pools from your games and your friend(s)’s game(s) and mixes them all together into two big item pools. so you might find the Fly HM for a friend’s game where you would normally get the Cut HM. so you don’t get an item at all, but the next time your friend starts up the game then they’ll get a notification that it was sent to them by you (or, if they’re already playing, they’ll get the notification right away)

but what’s even cooler about Archipelago is that you can be playing totally different games and still have your items show up in each other’s games. like before when I mentioned that Rowan was playing Hylics 2 while I’m playing Doom. instead of a weapon pickup, I might find some armor for Rowan. and Rowan has picked up items in chests that turned into soulspheres, more ammo, or weapons for my character in Doom

often one of us will get stuck with nothing left to collect, until the other gets the next item that we need to progress. so it feels like we’re constantly helping each other move forward in our games, and I really love that feeling of cooperating and helping each other

I hope that makes sense!

So [Pokemon] plan for certain situation, like to dodge a certain way, or how to react with different attacks, or now I’m blanking, but there is definitely also some stories that do a lot of misdirection stuff, like illusions or using provoke, or there are plans like breaking up the field in a certain way to have stuff to hide behind and act as obstacles, or to mess up the footing against certain pokemon, or put water or mud or something into play. And there are some standard responses to things, like a reoccurring theme is using iron tail or steel wing to help ground electric attacks, or super short duration digs to dodge.

ohh I love how tactical this gets - like breaking up the field (probably with earth- or ground-type moves?) in order to have cover. and using illusions and other forms of misdirection. this actually sounds so cool - like I could imagine this being something like a hero shooter where the characters are different Pokemon instead

I have enjoyed in the new (some of the switch) games they have added pokemon to the overworld, so that you can like try to run around or away from them.

I saw that! I think that’s such a huge improvement because when young kas was playing Pokemon Gold she absolutely hated the random battles so much lol. but there’s so much that I could criticize about that game honestly

but yeah I love how the newer games give you a bit more of a choice when you battle Pokemon or trainers instead of them just coming out of nowhere lol

In Scarlet/Violet they actually experimented with trainers only fighting you if you talk to them (or in events), which kinda worked with the format,

ohh - that’s interesting. when I was playing Gold I always hated the trainers because it felt like they were deliberately out to get me lol. like I know the battles are supposed to be friendly competitions but sometimes I would be trying to rush a poisoned Pokemon to the next Pokemon center and a ton of trainers would get in my way and try to stop me, or things like that

which, I guess that’s a problem that a lot of games have because they want the world to be full of challenges that you have to get past in order to progress, but it’s hard to justify why (for example) every single animal in Skyrim is full of unquenchable bloodlust lol. and why there are 7 bandits who suicide-rush every person they see for every 1 ordinary citizen

but I’m not sure I liked what they did with scarlet/violet. The story/world doesn’t like… make sense, even by the standards of pokemon. And you have no real guidance, but stuff doesn’t scale either, so there are “correct” routes, which don’t have in game guideposts.

oof that does really seem like a problem. I remember young me getting stuck a lot in Pokemon Gold as it is because it will tell you what to do next in like one dialog box but then it has no way to remind you of what you’re supposed to be doing beyond that point - you just have to wander around and hope you find the next thing to do lol

I like that a lot of the fanfics lean into the pokemon want to travel the world and get stronger aspect of it. Like I haven’t watched all the anime, or much even, but I did watch a few episodes a while back, and I noticed that Ash and crew mostly asked the pokemon if they wanted to travel with them, rather than forcing them.

I like that a lot more! in the games, mechanically it really feels like you’re overpowering the pokemon and capturing them against their will. but I’m not sure how to fix that without removing the (pretty cool, actually) risk/reward system of weakening a pokemon without fainting them. maybe every pokemon has a section marked on their healthbar, and if you can get them below that point without fainting then the pokemon will offer to join you?

But yeah like it mostly only works if it is like sports, where people (and pokemon) don’t really get hurt for real, are going to get better, and are just competing to get stronger.

yeah that does sound way better tbh. honestly another thing about the games is how pokemon and trainers will attack you even if you’re in a desperate situation (like I mentioned above) and I wonder if that could be fixed by having almost like a Hunger Games type situation, where a bunch of trainers (who consented to be part of this challenge) are dropped onto an island with a bunch of trained “wild” pokemon that will attack them (but that’s part of the game, and the pokemon aren’t actually trying to kill anyone) and a bunch of other trainers to compete with too

actually, what if the whole game is framed as a VR thing? like maybe all of the pokemon are experimental AI that need to be challenged in order to grow and improve, and the trainers are there because they enjoy the challenge and because they want to help the AIs grow by challenging them. that way “every single pokemon is hellbent on attacking everything they see” kinda makes sense lol because the AIs whole existence is combat, because that’s how they grow, and they don’t pose any real danger to the trainers they’re attacking or to the other pokemon

I will respond to [Magic is Programming/Dungeon Cores/Webnovels] in a separate post (on a later night), as there is so much I could say and I’m running up on the character limit (and my bedtime)

ooh, okay! it seems like you’re pretty passionate about novels and webnovels so I’d love to hear your thoughts

Yeah, like different languages are built with different philosophies, and some of them make sense from one perspective, but not always yours. I’ve decided to become a lisp guy lol, like its the first language I’ve used where pretty much every decision I’m like, okay cool, that makes sense to me.

omg lisp? I never would have guessed that - but that’s cool! I love a lot of stuff about lisp - like how incredibly simple the syntax is and how all of the code is basically just a series of lists(?) of symbols which you can manipulate as data somehow (I never got far enough to learn how that works lol)

I actually tried learning it in the past but I found it incredibly unintuitive lol, and I had a hard time with remembering functions names like “car” and “cdr”. but I think it makes sense why you’d like it because my understanding of lisp is that it’s very mathematical - like it takes a declarative and functional approach for the most part

do you like a specific dialect of lisp, or just common lisp?

Do you have a favourite language?

so the language that I’ve used for by far the longest (like 15 years lol) is Python. I know it really really well at this point. but I’ve also used a lot of Lua, and I’m learning TypeScript now but it’s been hard for me to wrap my head around the typing stuff

but every time I use a language that isn’t Python, I miss a bunch of stuff from Python. mostly the comprehensions tbh

That could be fun! What [Minecraft mod] would you want to make?

so I’ve been interested in making an extension to ComputerCraft where you program nanobots. so I’m imagining that you would craft a nanobot syringe, program them, and then right-click to inject them into a solid block. then that block would have kind of a grey scifi border indicating that it’s swarming with nanobots. and from there the nanobots could:

• split into smaller swarms that would spread to other blocks in any cardinal direction
• detect what kind of block they’re inside of and what blocks are in the cardinal directions
• destroy the block, which might give them resources to make more nanobots, or might give them energy
• swap the block with another in the cardinal directions (but this would use energy)
• strengthen a block to make it harder to mine or resist explosions
• do other stuff to change the block’s properties like make it fall like gravel (which they could use to travel downwards more quickly)

so I’m imagining, for example, that you could program them so that you could be standing on the surface and inject some nanobots into the grass block below you, and they would propagate through that chunk until they found all of the ores and started transporting them to the surface for you to mine, and then all of the nanobots would rejoin each other at the block they started at and wait to be collected again

I’ve also been wanting to make a mod that’s about necromancy but in a transhumanist kind of way. where you’re taking care of villagers and healing them when they get sick, but you’re also capable of consensually killing them so they can be reanimated as undead

and the way that would work would be that you collect a villager corpse (it wouldn’t be an item - you would have to shift-right-click to carry it in your hands with a slowness debuff) and then do kind of an autopsy on it, where you remove organs and modify them, then put them back into the body. each organ modification would have some drawbacks, but every organ has to be modified or replaced in order for the villager to become undead

like for example you might liquefy a ghast tear and soak a villager’s heart in it, but this would numb the villager’s emotions which might cause them to be impulsively violent to others. or you might replace a villager’s stomach with one made of rotten flesh, but this would give them a hunger for raw meat. and you would have to experiment to learn these things, because at first you would just have hunches like “what if I packed a heart with snow?”

and the end goal would be to learn how to create a perfect set of organs, so that your villagers can have a full range of “human” experiences even while they’re undead, with no downsides - but they would also be free of diseases, pain, death and the other terrible things that come with being made of living meat